00:00:00Tim Hensley: This is an interview with Halina Zimm for the Virginia Holocaust Museum. The date is January 20th, 2013. My name is Tim Hensley, and our videographer is Lindsay Stone. Can you start off by telling us your full name?
00:00:18Halina Zimm: My name is Halina Zimm, and my false identity name was Wanda Kazusek.
Tim: Can you tell us what your birth name was?
Halina: You mean my real one?
Tim: Yes.
Halina: I was born on December 4, 1927.
Tim: Which city were you born in?
Halina: I was born in Łódź, Poland.
Tim: How many siblings did you have?
Halina: There are three sisters, including myself, so there were three of us.
Tim: What were their names and ages compared to you?
Halina: I'm the youngest, so my oldest is about four years older, Helen. She's going to be about 87. The middle one is, I guess same, 86. I'm 85. I was almost 84 but that was the end of- -[laughs]
Tim: What's your middle sister's name? Halina: Nana.
Tim: Can you tell us a little bit about your parents?
Halina: Do you want me to open up this whole story or what?
Tim: Yes.
00:01:34Halina: Like I said, I was born in Łódź, Poland. Łódź was the second largest city. Living in Poland in 1939, I remember, as a girl, 11, going on 12, I was busy in school and came from a family that was very comfortable and had very loving parents. Life was not bad, it was good, but there were always rumors going around against the Jews. I remember that sometimes just before, I would say like 1939, almost towards the end of '39, there were rumors going around that, "We hate the Jews, don't buy food in grocery stores," things that were very much against the Jews. Then of course, 1939, that's when war broke out, and Germany came to Poland, and they came to Łódź. You want me to continue?
Tim: What did your parents do for a living?
Halina: My father had a factory where we manufacture soap, soap factory. We were comfortable. We were not rich, but we were comfortable. Very loving parents. I remember going to school, my father was a very brilliant man, very much ahead of his time. He would open up my lunch pack when I was going to school and looked at my lunch pack, made sure it's-- when I think about it, it's almost incredible. He opened the lunch pack, made sure that what I had in lunch pack was nutritious. Make sure you got the apple, and sometimes, the apple was a red apple that was coming from the United States, because in Poland, they didn't have those beautiful red apples. When I came to school and I had my apple, started eating it, everybody say, "Oh my God, you must be so rich. You eat American apples." Like I said, my father and my mother, they were wonderful parents. We knew that we were loved by our parents.
00:03:48Tim: Was your family particularly religious?
Halina: No, no, no. My mother was much more, but not my father. As a young man, since living in a small village, my father. Times were very bad, so he jumped-- I remember, he was telling her, he jumped on a train, he went to Russia. He was 15 years old when he left Poland, went to Russia to make his life better, because over there, there was not anti-Semitism. The communists believed that everybody is equal. That's what you believe, that's what they told you.
He went to Russia, lived in Russia and became educated and became an officer in the Russian Army. Came back. My father was 6 feet tall. He came back from Russia and married my mother. My mother fell in love with him. She was three years older than my father.
Tim: Do you remember about what year that was?
Halina: No. I know that when I was born, my father was 33 years old. I have all these new birth certificates, my own birth certificate. He was 33 and I am 85 now. That means he would have been 100 and something. 100 and maybe 10 or 8.
Tim: He was in Russia for a while and then came back to Poland, and that's where he met your mother.
Halina: That's right, yes.
Tim: You mentioned a little bit about the way things were before the Germans came. You were noticing anti-semitism even before the war started.
Halina: Yes.
Tim: Can you talk a little bit more about that? Did you experience some of it?
Halina: I was still young. 12 years old, 11 years old, it was very young. I was very young in my ways, because you have your parents, so they did everything for you, so I really don't remember very much, except that there were sign, "Don't buy groceries. Don't support the Jewish stores. Don't buy in a Jewish--" Things like that.
Tim: Did you experience any of that when you were in school?
Halina: I don't recall this, to be honest. I don't recall that. Then in school, no.
Tim: Do you have any other fairly vivid memories about childhood that you would like to share?
00:06:19Halina: I remember going to my grandparents, my mother's family, living in a village by the name Zarnów, and I'll tell you more about that thing. We used to go on summertime to Zarnów to spend time with my grandparents. There was wonderful time. I remember sometimes, you see a lot of Hasidic Jews in their little small village, I remember that. My father didn't like these people, for some reason. Isn't that something? This I remember, he did not like those ultra-religious Jews, but I don't feel that way now, see?
I respect everybody, but my father said, "Stay away from these people." Used to say [chuckles]. That's what I remember [unintelligible 00:07:11]. That's what I can tell you. That's what I remember.
Tim: This was in Poland as well?
Halina: It was in Łódź. My father was a very sophisticated man. He was very ahead of his time. He was brilliant. I always say to my husband, to my children, "I've never met anybody, really, like my father." Because he's been around. Very independent. Went to Russia on his own at age 15. He loved the Russian people, but didn't like-- he left when the communists came to power. That's why he escaped and came to Poland.
00:07:56Tim: Can you tell us a little bit about what you remember when the war actually started?
Halina: I remember when the war started, the Germans marched into Poland with motorcycles and cars. That was something that we didn't see very often in Poland because Poland was not as developed, was not as sophisticated, so for us, they marched in, it was just like somebody from the sky or from something like-- bicycles and motorcycles, very sophisticated. In the beginning, we didn't know how they were going to treat Jewish people. After a while, they showed their true self, the way they were. They said, "We won't bother the Poles, but all the Jews--" I remember they said, "All Jews--" That's what they showed, this way. There was a sign.
My father, at the time, felt that-- things began to go very bad, especially in a big city. Schools were immediately closed when the Germans marched into Poland. Schools, especially for the Jewish people. I couldn't go to school anymore, which I was very happy I didn't go to school. We couldn't even buy food anymore in stores. As a Jew, we were forbidden to go to stores and buy food. Life became unbearable. My father said, "We have to leave Łódź. Let's go to Zarnów where my grandparents live." That's when he decided to just pack what we had and go to Zarnów.
00:09:35We packed all our belongings on a big cart, like a horse and buggy and some Polish people were helping us to put our belongings on the way to Zarnów.
On the way, there were three wagons. I, with my sister, were one wagon, and my father, my mother-- There were three different kinds. We were stopped on the way. My sister stopped by Germans and Poles, they collaborated with the Germans. Ask us where we were going. We told them we're going to our grandparents. They confiscated everything what we had, all our belongings. We came back with nothing. My father was devastated. We had nothing.
Tim: You went back to Łódź? [crosstalk]
Halina: No, we went back to Zarnów, yes. We went to Zarnów because we couldn't go back anymore to Łódź. Coming to Zarnów, my grandparents lived there with my mother's sibling, so almost the whole family was there. Things were very tough, but my father was an exceptionally capable man. We rented a one room, just one room. It looked like a Lincoln cabin. That's exactly the way it looked, I remember that. In that one room, we cooked and stayed in the same room, all five of us.
My father, believe it or not, was making soap there. Making soap in that one room and was sending soap to farmers. People came from all around to buy soap and we traded for food. They would bring us bread and grits and eggs, and he traded for soap.
Tim: Can you tell us about what year this was?
Halina: I think it was 1942.
Tim: '42?
Halina: Yes. That area, actually, was untouched, because the big cities were where the Germans came in and started with the Jews, but the small villages, they did not touch as much. In particular, that place, Zarnów, was very quiet until 1943. 1943 is when the Germans decided to come to this place, evacuated all the people, and from there, they were going to Treblinka. 1943, 1944. By living in the Zarnów, I remember now, now, in the summertime, my father made sure that we're going to have enough potatoes and grits.
We had like a basement, a big basement in that one room. When you open on the bottom, on the floor, the wooden floor, you open up the top, and there was a basement. He was such a provider, that he stored all the potatoes and all the grits, everything that was not perishable, that you could use it in the wintertime. I'm just telling, we're bringing men and men. Also, he made sure that the cabin, in the wintertime was very cold, and all the wind would blow. All summer long, he would put-- What do you call this stuff, that you cover up the holes. [unintelligible 00:13:03] or something. He was really truly a remarkable man.
00:13:08When we stayed there, rumors going around again, "They're taking Jews." Rumors were circulating, "They're taking Jews to concentration camps." See, we were not aware of it, we were away from everything. The rumors were going around, and my father says, "You know what, I don't trust the Germans. I have to do something to save my daughters. I don't care what happens to me," he says, "I want to save my daughters." He was trying to contact different people, tried to get false papers for us. Had contacted some non-Jews.
They said, "We're going to deliver some papers from-- either false papers or from our own children." They took the money but never delivered the goods, never came in. My father was absolutely devastated. He was so upset. He defied the Germans. He wanted so much for us to live. He was at the time, 45 years, I remember that. 1943, '44 he was 45. Among all the people that came, the farmers, there was a one very lovely woman coming, and befriended us as a family. She was very lovely. She always use to come by herself. My father spoke to her, he confided in her how worried he is about us, is there anything she can do?
He says, "I have two daughters, I'll try to do something, I'm not sure, but I'm going to go to my priest, and maybe I'll be able to obtain papers, birth certificates for my own daughters." A week later, she came and says-- My father's name was Drexler, that was my maiden name. He said, "Drexler, I think I have some papers. I went to my priest and I didn't tell him anything why, but I asked him, can you give me a birth certificate for my own daughters? One is a year older and one is younger."
Anyway, she came in and gave us the papers. My father was so grateful. She's the one which I call, really, truly a righteous Gentile. At that time, he had no money to give to her anymore. She did it without the money.
00:15:25She says, "I'll come for the girls in about two weeks." Sure enough, she did exactly what she said. I remember, it was in November. The winters in Poland are dreadful. They're exceptionally cold and windy. She came and she says, "I'll take those two girls." [unintelligible 00:15:46] take my middle sister. Besides, she had no papers for her. My middle sister was always very paranoid. Always. A lot of fears. She came and picked the two of us up. Before she came, my father wanted to take my sister and myself separately, to talk to us how to survive. I remember what he told me. He said, "[unintelligible 00:16:11], I bet you can't, unfortunately, you can't trust so many people. There are many people who are against the Jews, that want to kill us. The only thing I can tell you, no matter what happens, never reveal to anybody, no one, that you're Jewish, no matter what happens. This has to always stay with you." That became almost like a religion in my brain. My name is Wanda Kazusek, I am no longer Halina. When I said goodbye to them, to my mother and my father, that was one of the most horrible things that I experienced and I could never forget because I knew I'd never see them again. Never. My father was so devastated. He knew that he's not going to see us again. He said, "That's the only way," he said, "you can survive. You stay here, you go just like the rest of us." He was so brilliant. Think about it. If it wouldn't be for my father, we wouldn't be here. I said goodbye to my father and my mother, and my mother was crying terribly. She just worried very much. I was the younger. She cried for me. My little sister told me that later on, because she stayed with them. She took us to Warsaw to her mother. She had a mother living in Warsaw. She never told her mother. Think about it. We were there for two weeks. She left us with her mother, told her mother that there we were Polish girls, that we got papers to go to Germany to work. See, Poles were recruited by the Germans, especially young people, to go to Germany to work because the war was going on with Russia, so they needed the forces, they needed people to work on the farms and factories. They recruited a lot of Polish people, young people. She told her mother, these girls received papers and they don't want to go. They're hiding, going to another city. She was an old woman, a nice woman, old lady, she never asked any questions. We stayed there for two weeks with her.
00:18:09Then one day, my sister came, the middle sister, it was a miracle. All of a sudden, she shows up. How did she get out? My father was able to obtain papers for her, too. He actually went, joined the [unintelligible 00:18:28]. Unfortunately, he was looking for them. There was no way. He said there was not going to be a [unintelligible 00:18:35] in that area. He and my mother just-- I'll tell you about it later. Anyway, my sister came.
Once when she came, people became very suspicious. This is a big apartment building in Warsaw. Warsaw is a very beautiful city. There were a lot of young people there. Of course, us being young, at the time I was only 14 or 15. I always get confused with age, but something like that. They became very suspicious, young guys, and kept asking, "Where is your mother, your father, what are you doing here? Why aren't you with your parents? I bet you must be Jews. Now, if you're not going to go and leave this place, we're going to the Gestapo to report you. Now, you get the hell out of here," they said to us, "You get out of here." My older sister, at that time she still was okay, Helen. She says, "The three of us being in one place, people become too suspicious. We have to split. Everybody's got to go their own way."
00:19:38Everybody is on their own. I said goodbye to her, and I know what I did. I said I'm going on a train station. I went to a train station. It was late in the evening, and the train, I could see the train coming and going. People coming down from the train going. I would say eight-- Poland was very dark and cold. I see people dressed up beautiful with some briefcases. I couldn't stop him. I had enough sense to realize that these people ask so many questions. You ask somebody, they'll be poorly dressed. I saw the woman coming down the train with a bundle in her hand. I stopped her when she came to the train and I went up to her and I start crying. I said, "I'm here all alone. I got papers to go to Germany. I left my parents. I escape, and I have no place to go. Can you take me to the house?" I said, "I have no place to go, otherwise I'm going to die here." I was so young. When I was 15, I looked like I was 12. She said, "Okay, child, you come with me." She never asked that I was Jewish. She never suspected me. She took me in. She lived in one little room. She had one room, and she's a widow with a son. She says, "I am a poor woman. I wash clothes for different people. You can't stay here so much." She goes, "I don't have any food for you." In the middle of the night, I remember when she was asleep and her son was asleep, I would get out from my bed, I was laying almost on the floor, and would pick up some of the potatoes that she had cooked there, and quietly eat under the blanket. Like I say, it was tough, the two weeks were very tough. She was good to me. She felt sorry for me.
00:21:30One day she came, she says, "Wanda, I think I have very good news for you." I said, "What is it?" "I think I might have a job for you." I said, "Oh my God, a job. What kind of job?" I said, "I do those washing for the young couple." She said, "He's an engineer and works for the Germans. He drives a truck for the Germans, so there's plenty food in the house. I'll let you go. I'm going to tell you more about you. You go for the interview. The young couple just got married about half a year ago here." I went over to her place. I couldn't believe it. A magnificent apartment, and the apartment was after the Jewish people. In Warsaw, there was a ghetto, the Jewish Warsaw Ghetto, that was very famous. They had the apartment after the Jews. It was so gorgeous. I have to tell you, even now when I think about it. Everything on floor. Gorgeous rooms, flowing, one room to another. That's what they had. They had three gorgeous bedrooms. Magnificent. I walked in here and I see this woman, I show you a picture of her, gorgeous. 5'8 or 5'9, tall, slender, gorgeous hair. I was struck by her beauty. She says, "What is your name?" I said, "My name is Wanda." "What are you doing here?" I said, "I came from a very small village, from Zarnów." I told her real quickly, I didn't even speak too much. "You're hired." She hired me on the spot. Never asked too many questions, except where I'm from, and that's it. I stayed with her almost two or three years, with this woman. She was very intelligent. Her parents were divorced, but before the war, they own a-- what do you call? A coal mine. Highly intelligent. In Poland, they had two classes. Either you were very intelligent or you were-- There was nothing between. She belonged to the aristocracy of Poland, at Warsaw. Being there, she was very good to me. I never lacked any food, because like I said, he worked for the Germans. He was driving trucks, deliver food to the Germans, [unintelligible 00:23:55] is the army. I had plenty of bread. Anyway, my sister found out that I was there. I don't remember how she found me. She would come to me and I'll give her food and I give her bacon. Anyway, I live--
Tim: Which sister was this?
00:24:17Halina: My oldest. Every day, I would go to the market, where I would buy food. She taught me how to prepare her breakfast, and she helped me with dinners. Excuse me. I drink water. Every day, I would go to the market to buy groceries, because they didn't have refrigeration. I would come back, she was still in the bed, and I'll go in the kitchen, make breakfast for her, and she was still in her bed. One day, when I was going to the market every day, like I said, we lived very close to the Warsaw Ghetto, which is, if I looked out the window here, not even a whole block, half a block. Less than that was the Warsaw ghetto.
I would walk every day and I would see the ghetto, which was a very big brick wall. They were all closed up, and Germans were all around. They would be on the second floor above the brick wall, and they would look everybody, look at people walking, that we were so lucky we were free. One day I noticed that they made a hole in the brick wall and snack the baby there. Every day I was walking, I saw the poor Jews dying there for hunger. I couldn't do anything. I keep on going. One day, I walk in the street, and I see somebody that I recognize, but I pretended I didn't see, I continue walking. This little Zarnów, the village that I used to live with my grandparents, it was a woman, didn't even know me. Did not even know me, but she knew who we were. She knew the family. She followed me. I was not aware that she followed me. She looked at me, I looked at her, and that's it. I never realized that she followed me. One day, I come home, open my door, and we had a very long corridor, like a hallway. It was very dark, and I opened the door, and I see the shadow of two people. One was a man in German uniform and one in a trench coat. One was a German and one was a Pole. The German walked in into the living room and that's where she was sitting already. See, Poles were not allowed to have any guns.
They [unintelligible 00:26:45] the Germans, but no rival, no guns. The German had a gun. He stuck in my back and pointed out to me, I should get in and sit down. I sat down and the Pole was sitting there, and start to interrogate me. At that point, I knew what happened. He indicated already that the woman is the one that told me that was a Jew. What did she have against me? God, I never did anything wrong to her. She couldn't stand it that they were Jew who were still alive. See? There's so many hateful people. He started me question, "What is your name?" In [unintelligible 00:27:25] Polish. I said, "My name is Wanda Kazusek." "Where were you born?"
All this question, of course I knew, "Do you go to church?" I say, "I go to church." "How often you go to church?" "I go to church every week." "When every week?" "Sunday." "You ever go to communion?" I said, "Yes, I go to communion." "What do you do when you go to the communion?" I said-- I didn't know. I knew the prayers, but see, I never knew what to do. He said to me, "When you go to the communion, who's there? Is the priest there?" I said, "Yes." "Does he give you something to eat?" I knew at this point I didn't know the answers. I knew this is the end of me. I was so already frightening. She says, "Does she give you food to eat?" I said, "Yes." "Like what? Does she give you wine to drink?" I said, "Yes." I didn't know. Then he's, "Get up. You are a Jew and you know what your faith is. You're going to be shot. Put your clothes on." When he told me that, "Put your clothes on," I start screaming and crying, and the woman-- While he was interrogating me, this woman-- her name was Yanya. She was talking to the German. He was very impressed with her. She had a very beautiful baby, Grand Piano, I remember now. Beautiful, long nails, gorgeous jewelry. She was a very aristocratic woman.
She said, "Wait a minute, I know this child. Can't you see that the child is nervous?" See, when I was 15, she was 23. She was gorgeous. Oh, maybe 24. He says, "Don't you see she's nervous. Wanda tell your prayers, you go to church every week." Then I started saying, [unintelligible 00:29:18] remember that. "Wanda, go in the kitchen, show him the letters that your mother sent it to you." See, my sister started writing letters to me, so would not be any suspicion there. She's used to write, "My dearest daughter, I miss you so much. When are you coming home?" "Go show your letters." I show the letters. "I know this child, I guarantee that she is not a Jew." She took all her jewelry. If this was not a miracle, that God was not there to protect me, then what is it? She took all her jewelry, put it on the table. "I guarantee you that the child is not Jewish." They were so convinced, what she said. They got up and said, "Look--" They believed her. Why would she risk her life for me? Every Pole that was hiding a Jew was automatically pulled to concentration camp. He says, "You know what, Wanda? We know where your parents, we know to find you. We're going to write to your parents and see whether there's such a thing like Wanda Kazusek." They left.
When she told her mother, her mother, she, what happened? Her mother said, "You know what, [unintelligible 00:30:35] here and [unintelligible 00:30:36] said, I said, "Take it away. She's a Jew." The mother was a real mean woman. Really mean, I never liked-- She looked like a witch from the Wizard of Oz. That's the way she looked, her mother. Anyway, I told my sister about it. Helen, and I said, "Helen?" I told the whole story. She says-- she live in a small village, 20 miles out of Warsaw. That's where she survived, in a small village. I live in Warsaw. She used to come to visit me. She said, "I value you." She says, "I'll leave this place immediately. They're going to find you. They're going to come back." I kept saying to myself and talking to my father and praying, talking him, "What do you think I should do?" I was crying and talking to my father. "What do you think I should do?" In my own mind. I decided to stay. I said to myself, "I have no place to go. Whatever happens happens. I ain't going anywhere." I stayed. They never came. They never came for me, but every time somebody knocked at the door-- We lived in a big apartment building. If you ever were in Paris, they've got those big courtyards, and the main door, the biggest door that they knock on, they knock that big door, and I could hear this knocking. My heart was beating. I think they're coming after me. You know what, I developed [unintelligible 00:31:59] itching on my body, scratching myself from nervousness, but they never came. They never came. I stayed there, and I had these papers. I became much more secure, I went to the main German office, where I got this birth certificate, with my fingerprints. I was much more secure to have authentic certificate.
00:32:25That's what it was. Then, the Jews in the Warsaw ghetto made uprising. I don't know whether you know-- or Lindsay, I don't know you know that the Jews, the only place where the Jews made the uprising, big uprising, was in the Warsaw Ghetto. Of course, I lived right next to ghetto.
The Jews fought very bravely for two months in Warsaw, two months. They made their own ammunition, and they kept Germans away from the ghetto for two months. Then the Germans came. You couldn't fight the power like the Germans were. They came in and crushed the whole uprising, burned the whole ghetto, and all night long, you could hear weeping and crying because the Germans came, they knew that the other children are hiding in the basement, dynamite the basement, and you could hear flames. We lived so close, that they were afraid. All the Poles and all from our building, we all went outside to look that the-- worry that the flames from the ghetto reached our apartment building. I went out and the woman that worked I for, Mrs. Jandzewska, her last name, and we went outside, and praying that the flames are not going to reach us. I heard so many crying, and I start crying and saying, the children are dying there. She said, "Wanda," she put her arms around me. She was very good to me. I'm now gonna switch that. I'm sorry that I didn't mention it to you. She has been wonderful to me. She said, "Wanda, when the war is gonna be over, I am going to send you to school and educate you. You're a smart girl. Unfortunately, you don't have too much education. I'll send you to school." She gave me some of her clothes. Of course, she was told, but she gave me whatever she could. When her friends came, she always had great, beautiful parties. When her friends came in, she would always introduce me. She said, "Wanda, why are you crying?" I said, "Sorry for these people. They're dying there." She put her arms around me and her husband was next to her. He didn't say anything. She says, "Wanda, [unintelligible 00:34:38] so sorry, as human beings, but as Jews, let them burn." I think I told you that, didn't I? "Let them burn." This is something I never forgot. Look how many years ago was it. This is always stay in my mind, what she said.
Then I thought to myself, "God, how smart my father was. How he told me, never reveal, no matter how good they are to you, never reveal who you are and how--" If she would've known-- When that incident happened, I didn't question her too much, but I thought to myself how wonderful she was, that she saved me. I thought maybe of goodness, maybe she didn't know that I was Jewish. I just thinking to myself, maybe, but then when she made that statement, I really knew that she didn't, because if she did, she would never have kept me there, but made a very terrible statement because so much hate. Why would she hate?
It's a horrible thing. I have to tell you, I loved that woman. Really, truly, I wanted to be like her. She had everything, She was beautiful. She was intelligent, and she was good to me. She was a wonderful role model for me as a young person. When she made that statement, it really is something, just like something stuck knife in me. Life goes on, and every day, it's the same thing, this and that. It hurt me very much, but I can't hate for too long. I never hate her, anyway.
00:36:13Things keep on going, and then one day I'm walking in the street of Warsaw, and it's five o'clock, people running and screaming and getting on. People running with knives and hatcher, all these things that people use on the farms.
Boy, I never drink so much water. Uprising. The Polish made uprising. I don't know how many people know about the Polish uprising. I don't know. The Polish made uprising against the Germans. I was in the uprising. I was not in the Jewish, but I was in Polish uprising. You're talking pure hell. For two months, you couldn't go out at all. They were bombarding us day and night. I was very active there because I was very young. People were dying from [unintelligible 00:37:09]. I would go and help and bring food for them. Excuse me. Can you stop that for a minute? Is anything similar? Maybe concentration? Yes.
Tim: Really, the closest that comes to your story, obviously, is your sister's. Obviously. Your stories are fairly close. Her experience in the little town is nothing like your experience in Warsaw.
Halina: Exactly. Also, she was liberated nine months before me.
Tim: Right. She was with a much older woman, if I remember correctly.
Halina: Yes. She was in a small village. Yes. You remember.
Tim: Then, she told us a little bit about Nana's story, which was entirely different as well.
Halina: Oh, yes. She went through a lot with her. She was recognized.
Tim: Yes. Was she ever interviewed by anybody, do you know?
Halina: In Canada?
Tim: Yes. Or in the states? Either one.
Halina: I think maybe one time. She still suffers with very deep depression. Look, she was very young when she was raped by a Polish policeman.
Tim: Yes, I remember.
Halina: You're not running, Lindsay.
Lindsay Stone: Yes.
Halina: Oh, you are?
Lindsay: I just started it.
Tim: We can cut this out.
Halina: Yes. Well, she was-- I remember very vividly.
Tim: You were talking about the Warsaw Uprising.
Halina: Yes. I was not aware, but seeing people running, and then what's happening? "Oh, it's uprising. We're fighting against the Germans." I would say about a year after Poles, the Jews made the uprising. All of a sudden, everything was closed. No Germans anymore. See? It's only Poles. For two months, the Poles also, were very brave. Then we also had newspaper. People printed papers for us to know what's happening. I've seen it myself, a young boy, seven or eight years old, with Molotov cocktail in his hand, a bottle, throw himself under the German tank. They were very brave, to fight against the Germans, but it's still the same that happened to the Jews. The Germans, you couldn't fight the powerful army like the Germans. They came with planes and start bombarding it. Crushed the whole uprising. The Warsaw was completely destroyed. Did you know that? Nothing was left.
00:39:44The Germans came in. He says, "Everybody out, you can only take with you what you carry in your hands." The woman that I work for, she said to me, "I have a fur coat. I want you to wear fur coat." All night long, we used to stuff money, because paper money had no value. That's what she said. "Let's put the money, coin, in soap, soft soap, stick the coins." See, coin, gold is always gold.
She gave me one briefcase. I held it in my hand, she had a briefcase in her hand. We had all lined up on a very big place like a marketplace. I didn't mention to you, her husband was not there. Her husband got stuck. See, Warsaw is divided by river, and her husband was-- that's where he work, on the other side of the river. On the other side of the river, we're already Russians. She was separate from the husband completely. Her, her mother and myself, the three of us. We all three had to go on line to go into Germany. He had to go on trains. Before we got on the train-- no, we got on the train and we went to about 10 miles and the train stop. Everyone came out from the trains.
That second train was supposed to take us to Germany. We didn't know where we are going, but we were not so scared because we are not Jews, so we are not so scared. I never told her, but lot of Jews, during the uprising, there were some Jews that had false paper like myself. They thought that the Russians coming to liberate us, because the Russians were on the other side. If you can imagine. Can you imagine in your mind, that the Russians are on the other side of the river. They said they're going to come and liberate us.
Every time their plane was flying and there was a certain sound, we knew that's the Russians, they come to liberate us, but the Russian hated the Poles. They said, "Look, you didn't tell us you're going to make uprising. Why should we come to liberate you?" They never came us to liberate, but my sister was liberated already, and so was the woman that I worked for, Mrs. Jandzewska, her husband also. For nine months, they were free, but not us. [clears throat] When they put us in the other city, took us to other train going to Germany, everybody would line up, go on the train. Everybody start going. The closer they pushed me to get to the train, the more I pushed myself to the back, because I knew once when I'm going to be closer to the train, that's it. It got very dark outside already. I was almost toward the end. Suddenly, I keep on looking at people's faces, and I see, every few feet, there was another German. Not Gestapo anymore. They were just soldiers. They called them Wehrmacht. Wehrmacht is just like a soldier. How they say a soldier, okay? A soldier. I kept on looking. He looks such a nice face. I learned to read people's faces. I said, "Oh my God, he's so cute and he's so nice and looks so nice." I said to him in German, "Please, sir, let me go. I've got my mother living here in this city." See, we were in a different city, remember. Here is a train. If you run the train tracks, you on the other side. Nobody bother anybody from the other side. They only evacuate people that were made the uprising. They look at your papers. "Where were you this time? Oh, you were Warsaw. Oh, you're enemy." People in that little, small town, [unintelligible 00:43:41], there was no uprising, so there people were okay. I said, "I've got my mother living here." He said, "No, we need you to go to Germany to work. You got to go to-- We need people like you." I said, "Please, sir, let me go." They said, "No, no, no." Until later on. I was already told.
All of a sudden, I see he's standing. I'm not going to stand up. He was standing and turn his back toward me, pretending like he doesn't see. He did that to me. Give me a sign to run. He pretend he didn't see me. There was a woman standing next to me. I said, "Oh my God, I'm scared, I'm not going to go." She said, "I'm going to hold on your hand." Let's go. I had the coat on myself. I had the gold with the little thing, the case in my hand and a loaf of bread. The first thing that I did, I dropped the gold. It was very heavy, but the loaf of bread, I held onto it. I ran the tracks, and I was free. We were free.
00:44:45Tim: Where did you go from that point?
Halina: We walking was very late at night. It was just her and myself. Said, "Where are we going to go now?" We looked around, was a village. She says, "Oh, there's a little house here." There's a little light there. Let's knock the door and see who they are." We knocked the door and the older couple opens the door. I don't know-- Did I ever mention that to you or not? They opened the door, an older couple. He was a working on a train station. Retired train-- What do you call--
Tim: An engineer?
Halina: Yes. He opened the door. We said, "Who are you?" He asked the woman, "We're from Warsaw." "Oh, my goodness, Warsaw. Oh my God. Come in." All over the Warsaw, the Poles that the uprising against the Germans, they look upon them as greatest heroes, because we made the uprising in-- Warsaw was completely destroyed. Completely. Absolutely nothing left. They bombarded it. They made such a big [unintelligible 00:45:51]. "Come in, come in. Stay as long as you want to here." I stayed there couple weeks with her, but the Germans knew that a lot of people who escaped, [unintelligible 00:46:02]. You know what happened to the woman I worked for? She escaped, too. I forgot to mention to you.
She escaped before me. I know that she ran the train track. She never told me one thing. See, everybody for themself. It's just a human nature. She saw opportunity and she ran. Then I noticed that that gave me character to the same too. Anyway, so I stayed with her couple weeks and then Germans kept on coming looking for people. I never forgot in my life, Tim [unintelligible 00:46:32]. That one day, somebody knocked the door. I was such a intuition. I always thought they're coming after me, and here knocking, the first thing what I did. On the farm, they had those very big beds and the big blankets coming over.
The first thing I did, slip on the blanket, right on the bed. They came in and they spoke in German, "Anybody here?" She understand, kept on looking. The only thing I could see is those German boots. Believe me, there were the most frightening thing. The gestapos with black boots. Escaped. All the time, I was able to escape. I was exceptionally lucky, but I can't go to you anymore, because there's another study for another half an hour, and I can't tell you.
00:47:17I even worked for the Germans. Did you know that? After that.
Tim: After you escaped?
Halina: After I was working with the older lady, with them. I was looking for a job. I couldn't stay there. One day, when I was looking for a job, I looked in the paper, with some job, housekeeper. I come home back. The woman that escaped with me, she ran away and took my coat. She stole my coat. That fur coat. I'll never forget, I was so brokenhearted. She ran away, when I was looking for-- I kept on looking the papers. "Where can I find a job? There was something in the paper. German army is looking for women work in the kitchen. I was so brave. Then I applied for the job. There were about 20 women, and they took about 10, I was amongst those women, and worked for the Germans. Can you believe it? My story, when I think of myself [unintelligible 00:48:18] story. Do you know that I worked for the German army, cooking? Whenever they would travel, we would travel with them.
Tim: Oh, so you were traveling during that time? You weren't just in one place?
Halina: No. This was another unbelievable story. Unbelievable. The fact of it, when I think about it, that I was able to work for the Germans and they never knew that I was Jewish. Then one night, I'll never forgot that. One night, when I was asleep, I could hear tremendous noises, but I didn't tell this to anybody before. People going, running. I said, "What is it? What's happening here?" The next day, I found out-- and there were 10 women. I liked one of them in particular. The next morning, I found out that every woman was raped. God is my truth, that I'm not lying to you, and I want to see my children to be healthy. Nobody ever raped me. Every one of the women were raped. When I was as 15, 16, I looked very young and all the German were crazy about me. They loved me. They used to call me little girl, and they used to feel sorry because I worked very hard. I was trying to keep up with everybody, but I was so little and skinny and short. I was always-- all through the war, one thing, and God was good to me. I really believe in God. My father and my mother pray for me, because all through the war, I was never raped, I was never beaten. I was never exceptionally [unintelligible 00:49:45], except for one time or twice. I am very grateful that I survived, and I never experienced that some people experienced, a terrible thing in their life. What could be worse than that? That everyone was raped except me.
Tim: Now, were you working with the Germans, when--
Halina: In the kitchen.
Tim: Yes, when liberation came?
00:50:10Halina: When liberation came, we lived there by the Russians. See, when we travel with the Germans, wherever they would go, we go with them, because we had to be in the kitchen. They were rather Russians in the kitchen working too. Russians, but they were collaborate with the German, but they never had any guns. Never. Larger of the Russians come from Caucasus, which is like the Croatia or something. I know that area. What I'm saying is that because they were just regular soldiers, they were like Gestapo, they were drafted in the army. They were good people. See, they didn't harm anybody, but the people that came to rape the women, they were the officers, that they stopped on them because there was a war, and they needed women. They would stop on the way and raid the women. When we were liberated, when the Russian were moving in closer and closer, Russia was moving in, then the German was going deeper, escaping deep into Germany. Wherever they would go, they would take us with us. We realize, when the Russians were bombarding us, we were on the truck with the Germans. We were just like the Germans. One of the women said, "We've got to escape from them because when the Russian come, they would say, we collided. Oh, we might be like prostitutes or something." We all, not only us, but the German themselves, because the Russians was so close that what we had to do, that some of these Germans that were higher rank, [unintelligible 00:51:57] rank, [coughs] excuse me, they begin to change their clothes. There were some officers, most of them were just soldiers. They changed their clothes so the Russian wouldn't recognize them. We could see them, but they were all good people. These people were good people. Anyway, then all night long they were bombarding, because this was the war zone. See, this is the Germans, and here are the Russians moving in. The only thing we could hear the voices of the Russians. [unintelligible 00:52:42], for [unintelligible 00:52:43], you know what it means? "For our family, for Stalin." That's what they say. We fighting for our families and for stallion. Then all of a sudden, all the shooting stopped. We were at the farmers already. We escaped from the Germans. We were at the farmers. Everything stopped. All of a sudden these Russians. We are on the front. It's unbelievable when I think about it, what I went through, I can't even think about it. Russians came in. All of a sudden it's quiet. A bunch of Russians come in, a father and the son drunk. [Russian language]. You know what that means? [Russian language]? Women, women and women. A father and the son comes in, the father is drunk again [unintelligible 00:53:30], screaming, carrying [unintelligible 00:53:32], wanted to rape the women. Us. The son knocks the father to the chair and say "Look, these are Polish women. They're Polisky. They're Polish girls. Stay away from them." He pushed him. The father was drunk. He pushed them. Didn't let the father do anything. It''s unbelievable. Think about the thing that I've escaped, how close those-- It's just unbelievable when I think to myself.
00:54:00I stayed. We were liberated. What I had to do, I said I had to go back to Lodz and see who survived, but everything was closed. There was no train. The only trains that were only for people going back. Germans going back to Germany, and arrested by the Russians. We Polish people going back to Poland. I was already close to German border. That's always in Germany.
I had to go back. Everything was closed. The trains, everything was loaded with Polish army. I decided to walk. It took me almost three weeks, two and a half weeks to walk. I would walk all day long by myself, and stopped at night at farmers, slept over, continue. No wonder I have trouble with my knees. [laughs] Until I reach for Lodz, Warsaw. When I walked on the way, I met very good people, farmers, very good people. They put you in, they let you stay over. One family begged me just to stay there. I was always lucky with people. Always thank God, somehow I could connect with people, and they were always nice to me. Finally, after two weeks, I arrived Warsaw, nothing completely destroyed, nothing there. Then I started looking for my sister, then went to the village, couldn't find her. Go to person that she was working. She was not there. Told me to go to the next person. The next person. Finally, they told me she's in Lublin. I finally found her, went to the area where they have the offices registered. When I arrived there, they told me that she work as a maid. The war was over. I said, "Where's my sister?"
They said, "Well, she's taking some lessons. She learns how to type." She came back, she saw me. Of course, it was a wonderful reunion. I asked her, "Why didn't you look for me?" That they never stopped bothering me. She knows Liberty for nine months. Think about nine months. Never went to Poland, to Warsaw to look for me. I was the baby. I was the youngest. I was in Germany almost, just to look for the [unintelligible 00:56:23]. I said, "Helen, we can stay here. You got to leave the job here right now. What are you doing here? Let's go to look for family. Let's go to Lodz." That's what we did. Went back to Lodz and looked for family. Nobody survived. Then from my sister, Nana, she survived in Germany, couldn't survive in Poland, because she was constantly recognized by the Polish people. Nobody could tell a Jew like Pol. Pol, not the German. You could fool a German, but not a Pol. The way you talk, because the body language.
Remember, in Poland you have only one nationalities. It's only Polish. They were not different ethnic groups. The way you talk to your body language, they could tell a Jew. I was lucky. Also because we grew up in a neighborhood that they were only Polish people. We only spoke Polish. Our Polish was pure. A lot Jewish living in area with other Jews, they spoke Yiddish, so the language was already-- it was not a clear polish. They could recognize you. We were lucky, on top on everything is luck, luck, and thank God. The God is there. The God was there to save me for a reason.
Tim: Wow. We've got to stop for just a second. I've got one or two other questions that I want-- [pause 00:57:51]
Lindsay: Two seconds. Okay.
Tim: You went back to Lodz to find family, and you didn't find anybody?
Halina: No.
Tim: Did you stay there for a while, or did you move on from there?
Halina: No, we stayed there. We stay in Lodz for a while, and then I met my husband there.
00:58:27Tim: You met your husband in Lodz.
Halina: Yes.
Tim: What were the two of you doing at the time?
Halina: [unintelligible 00:58:33] that my sister, I found a job in a big store. It was a very modern [unintelligible 00:58:40] that was selling everything. Right after the war. It was things going on unbelievable, because Lodz was not destroyed. They were importing food like wine from France and food from America. She was working there. I got a job there too. I was working also there, selling fruit. [laughs]
Tim: That's where you met your husband?
Halina: Yes, he was coming from Germany.
Tim: Was he working as well?
Halina: No. He was liberated in Germany and came to Poland. When he came from Germany, he had some saccharin. For some reason, he met someone that worked in the factory in Germany, where they're making saccharin. Saccharin is like a sweetener, but was a very tremendous thing, very popular. People wanted, because sugar was not available even after the war. By the way back, coincident, they came from Germany back to Poland, and carried a few packages of the saccharin, and for the saccharin, he got so much money that he decided to go back and forth. He start making money. [laughs]
Tim: When you two met, how long was it before you wound up getting married?
Halina: I met him in 1945, right after the war. Don't forget that most of the people that survived, many of them survived. They came back from concentration camp. They had no hair, they were skinny, they look khufu. I was not in a camp, so I looked normal. I never had trouble meeting guys. I had plenty of guys because I had all my hair. I've met him. When I've met him, he never let go, and he was just like a pest. I wasn't thinking get married. I was just 18 years old, just turned 18, and he was 27. He was almost 8 years older than I am. Because, see, I was born in December, which is almost end of the year, 1927, December. We know the year, 1928. He's almost eight years old, I'm telling you.
Tim: How long was it before you got married, after you met?
Halina: We got married in 1948. Three years later.
Tim: You lived in Lodz all that time?
Halina: No, we left Lodz because we wanted to go to the United States. My father said, if you survive, I have two sisters, one living in the United States and one living in Canada. You look him out, he says he was so positive. He believe you're going to survive. Think about how brilliant this man was. Think about it. He said, "We survive," and he is an angel in all this. That's why my sister end up in Canada because I got married in Germany. When we applied for papers, she applied to Canada. Mine too, but meanwhile, when I got married, my papers changed, my name changed. I was not able to use my papers to go to Canada. I stayed a year longer in Germany to come to the United States. They went a year earlier to Canada, my two sisters.
01:02:18Tim: You came over in, it would have been like 48 or so when you came to-
Halina: We came end of 1949.
Tim: '49.
Halina: I thought it was December of '49.
Tim: Where did you come to in the United States when you first moved?
Halina: We came, believe it or not, we stayed in New York maybe one day, and we came here to Richmond. We were brought here by the Family Service. At the time, there was a different name. There was a woman Jewish organization. The only way that you can come to the United States in those days, you had to have a sponsor. You couldn't come otherwise. Not like that anybody can come. Not only this. You had to go to the doctor, and you were very, very screened, very precise. It was exception and it was done to perfection. If they find a little spot along, couldn't come.
Tim: You came to Richmond in '49, and you've been here ever since?
Halina: Ever since, yes.
01:03:34Tim: Did you ever find out what happened to your parents?
Halina: We found out that their transport, once when we left, their transport, which was one of the last one, because don't forget, the lady, they stay. They didn't know what to do with these people. They had to go, they had to just dispose of them completely. Right in the beginning, 1941, '42, they needed them in camps because they did some work for them, just like my husband.
They had some tailoring, and then he worked in a factory. They on 1944, it's almost toward the end. They didn't need these people anymore. They want to just get rid of him. He went to Treblinka. No one survived from that area. No one. We were the only survivors from the Janów and there were many of them there.
Tim: Did your grandparents, your parents were staying with your grandparents the entire time, is that correct?
Halina: Believe it or not, we were there about two years in Janów. I'm always get confused, is it two or three years? Something like that. They die of natural causes. I asked my sister, the one that lives in Canada, she got a very good-- One thing I said to my sisters, that one thing that our family have, we don't have Alzheimer's, doesn't run. Unfortunately, cancer is one of us in our family. My sister has a very good memory. I [unintelligible 01:05:06] "What happened exactly to grandparents? How did they die? They were precious." She said they died. She died first and he died later. Just like within a few months before they were transferred to concentration camp, so they never went.
Tim: Do you know anything about what happened to the woman who provided the certificate?
01:05:31Halina: Oh, yes. That's a very good question, but I wanted so much to meet her, and I asked my oldest son to ride to the embassy. Never were able to find her. Never. They would have been so fantastic to be able to meet her and say, "Look, I'm here and I'm Jewish." Oh, my God. If I had to confront her, you can imagine this would have been-- I could never find her. I don't know what happened. The only thing I can tell you that she suffered from TB. She had tuberculosis, as young as she was.
I don't know what happened to her, and I don't know what happened to him because he was cut off, was never able to find him. He was never able to find the woman they gave me to go to Poland. That was either because don't forget, she was an older woman too. I don't know, couldn't find anybody.
01:06:26Tim: Now, have you ever been back to Poland, or something?
Halina: Yes.
Tim: Okay, what was that like?
Halina: We went to Poland with my daughter and boyfriend at the time. I never wanted to go back, but my daughter was dating somebody, the one who lives in New York. We wanted to go to Poland. That was about 25 years ago, 30 years ago. No, maybe 28, something like that. We went to Poland, and the people that I met and told them my own experiences and how some people went and they didn't believe it. They were very rude. The older one, the younger generation is different, I have to tell you. I still believe very strongly that most of the people are good, really.
You hear about the bad people but look at the people. Think about that woman that really gave me the papers for free of her own children, went to the priest and asking, "Give me the papers of my own daughters." She didn't tell the people. Why would she do that? Why did she do that? Would you do that? Think about it. Then even the woman, Mrs. Yantovska, even her, not knowing that she saved me, definitely God was there. Somebody must have done something.
It was definitely a stronger power that she could do that. Think about it. She could very easily say, "Yes, she's a Jew. Where is this here?" I don't know. Never. She never said no. Even though she said she hate the Jews and this and that, but not knowingly, how to explain that. She saved me. What's the other explanation for that? How to explain otherwise? She saved me, not knowing, but it was a good thing, and not knowingly.
01:08:29Tim: Do you know if your father, you had said that he had siblings that were in Canada in the United States?
Halina: Yes.
Tim: During the 1930s, 1940s when things were starting to turn bad, do you know if he ever tried to get the family out?
Halina: My father?
Tim: Yes, to get out of Poland and come to either the United States?
Halina: He did. He was smart enough and all the papers to go to the United States, and my mother didn't want to go. He never forgave her for this. He had all papers. I'm not leaving my family. She kept on saying, "I'm not leaving." My father was smart enough to know it's happening, especially having a sister one in Canada, one in the United States. He wanted very much and had all the papers done. She says, "I am not going." See, people don't believe it. Even people now in this country right now, times are very bad, and sooner or later, here in this country, we're going to have trouble. Serious problem here.
Look how much money we owe. Still, people say, "It's going to get better." My husband is the first one to say, "It's going to get better. It's going to be okay." People said the same thing. It's not so bad. My mother says, "It's not going to be so bad, and I'm not leaving my family." She, as a matter of fact, she just tore the papers out. It was a terrible thing. My father never forgave her for this. He was very angry at her, very angry. I told my husband, "If we would have been in the United States, I would never have met you."
01:10:07Tim: Is there anything else from your experiences that you want to share today that you can think of?
Halina: Basically, we're very lucky to come to this country. Despite what everybody says, it's still a wonderful country and being somewhere different before I came to the United States. Remember, I've been in Czechoslovakia for a couple of weeks. Six months in Vienna, Austria, and these different countries living in Germany for three years. Remember that before I came to the United States, we live in Germany for three years, because we had papers. I had to wait, give them for three years.
Living in all this country gave me a very good perspective, and it's still a fantastic country. You can do whatever. It's the only time that I felt relief and not being afraid at night because I always live with fears. Remember, even after the war, I was always saying, "What's your name? My name is [unintelligible 01:11:09]." [unintelligible 01:11:10], for a long time, that's what my name. I never told even after the war, it was so ingrained in my head that my name is [unintelligible 01:11:20]. Coming here, there was such a relief, being able to sleep without-- having peace of mind, and being people, being free, not being afraid. American people basically are very good people, I have to tell you. They're good people. They got a good heart, they're helping others. I'm grateful that America opened up their arms and took us in. We've been happy here, very happy. We go to schools to talk about experience all the time. The main thing that we always say is that hate is something very destructive. You should never hate people because you can really never be happy. You can never be really, truly happy if you hate in your heart.
No, you relieve yourself. You just feel so liberated when you don't hate. You have nothing. You feel so [sighs] you can breathe again. Who needs it? That's one thing that I always feel. My daughter says the same. One thing that I tell you, my daughter in New York, she's exception-sensitive. The one my daughter in New York, you've never met her. She always said, "Mum, that's what I learned from your humility, and make sure that you treat people nice." Even my daughter, that's got the business here.
Honestly, I said to Annie, "When you have people coming to your store and you see they got problems with their breath, or they're short, they're fat, or they've got problems of Blacks, give them more time. Be extra nice to them because it's going to make them feel good." Many people come in, I have to tell you, some Blacks are unbelievable. I said, "Annie, be extra nice to her." I think that's important. You make people feel good. That's the whole life. If you're nice to people, believe me, you get it back. What goes around comes around.
What do you think? I'm very grateful that we came to this country and very grateful that God blessed us with these four wonderful children, really. They're good people. The main thing, they're all in service. Two of my sons are doctors. One is an oncologist, a cancer doctor. The other one is head and neck, otolaryngologist. My daughter, the one that's got the business, she was trained as a social worker. The one that is in New York is an architecture designer. They do service work for the people.
If I have to be with anybody, I have to tell you I am the happiest to be with my children, because not only they are, I like them as human being, as children, but they're good people. They're just good. If you can say that honestly, that's what honestly can say, that this is what I--That's my legacy, that we raised four wonderful children and never taught them to hate, but to respect other people and be kind. When somebody is nice to you, be nice to them. Be nice. Say, thank you so much. Thank you so much. This is what I'm telling you. That's the end of my story, I guess.
Tim: Thank you for sitting down and talking to us. We appreciate it.
Halina: Thank you. I'm sure you need some water or something, both of you. You made me, both of you made me very uncomfortable- [sound cut] It's a story that had happened. It happened. When I think about it, it's hard for me to-- Sometimes it happened to me, and I was able to survive this, and this I'm being damaged.
Tim: Yes, I'm always surprised at how-
Halina: Some people are damaged.
Tim: Some people are really damaged. Then others don't seem to be damaged at all. It's really unusual.
Halina: Which one do you find? Which one of the people they less damage than others? Is it men or women?
01:15:53Tim: I'm going to take a picture of you.
Lindsay: Oh, yes.
Tim: One of my family.
Lindsay: How old are you in that?
Halina: That picture, I would say I would be about 20. It was actually in Germany, down in Germany. See, I lived in Germany for three years. The Americans were giving us, support us while we were there because we were on the way to the United States. I was dating my husband at the time, and he was doing well, doing a little bit of businesses. I love clothes. I bought clothes. You can look at the picture and see. I think I have a nice little blouse here.
Lindsay: You're going to turn it just a little. It's got a lot of-
Tim: Are you speaking about the picture?
Lindsay: Yes.
Tim: How about now?
Lindsay: It's got a little bit of a-
Tim: To the left or to the right?
Lindsay: There you go. You've got a little bit of what about your clothes?
Halina: I love clothes, so I think I got a cute little blouse here, I think.
Lindsay: Yes, so pretty. Was that expensive to get that photograph done?
Halina: After the war, no. I would trade, for instance, when the Americans would send me cigarettes and sugar, and I remember what I love the most, peaches, the canned peaches. Did I ever love it? Oh, my God, I would wake up middle of the night, I got to open a can of peaches. I would trade some of the peaches and cigarettes, which I never smoked, and I would trade them for-- They gave me money and I would buy some clothes in Germany. Americans were good to us even in Germany. They were looking out for people. They're just great people, Americans. They're great people, honestly. Look how much they do good and all over the world. This is actually in Poland. Poland, my husband met me and just make a picture. I think here I'm about 18 years old. That's 18.
Lindsay: Oh, that's gorgeous. What about the woman over there?
Halina: This is my daughter. I have two daughters and two sons. That's my daughter and my baby, my youngest son. He's about, I would say, what, about three years or four years here. My oldest one is 61 and my youngest is 41. She's talking about when I had my youngest son, it was like almost 18 years, 19 years difference.[unintelligible 01:18:53].
Lindsay: And then the one below it?
Halina: That's my husband here with his family, not from a French. It was before the war. All these guys before the war. Can you see my husband there? He's second from the left.
Lindsay: That's what I was going to go.
Halina: Yes. Of course, they're all perished except him. You see how cold it is in Poland. Look at their coats wearing, these guys.
Lindsay: It's not the right collection.
Halina: This is when he went to Israel, 1981, we went to Israel for World Gathering, Jewish Holocaust survivors.
Lindsay: Oh, my.
Halina: We went there in June. I haven't been there since. Never been there since.
Lindsay: What did you do there?
Halina: Well, they had the gathering. They had that big convention. Everybody was looking for somebody that has set up different stations for people to look for each other and connect with each other. I'm going to get this from 1981. How many years though? '81, what? Almost 40 years ago.
Lindsay: So, that's Allan?
Halina: Yes, Allan, yes.
Lindsay: A lot of hair.
Halina: And a friend of his. Yes. A lot of hair.
Lindsay: God, it's amazing.
Halina: It's amazing when you change and when you get old. That's right.
Lindsay: And that's you.
Halina: That's in Warsaw. My sister came to visit me. I didn't mention to you that we had-- she had a dog. A Pekingese little do. You see that? and I took care of him. Precious little dog.
Lindsay: How old were you?
Halina: Here I was 16. This dog used to crap all over the place, and I had to clean up. I used to look after, cook for her.
Lindsay: Who is this?
Halina: This is my husband. One of his friends was going to the United States so they made a little party here.
Lindsay: Is he the second from the left?
Halina: Let's see. Yes. God, you got it right. He's a hard-working garage. You got three girls, but you got a nice figure. She's not fat, she looks great, doesn't she?
Lindsay: Absolutely.
Halina: It's nice to work with her. She's nice. [laughs]
Lindsay: We get along.
Halina: So are you.
Lindsay: We almost never fight.
Halina: Tell me. You like music?
Lindsay: I do.
Halina: Have you seen [unintelligible 01:21:44]
Lindsay: No, I haven't. I haven't yet.
Halina: Oh, it's [unintelligible 01:21:47] much, but let's [unintelligible 01:21:49] some wonderful film. You know what I saw?
Lindsay: What?
Halina: Oh, for God's sake. See the lining. You have to see it. It's fantastic. It is here [unintelligible 01:22:01] over here. Drink.
Lindsay: These are all your children?
Halina: Maybe you want some-- What do you call? Drink tea. You want some drink tea?
Lindsay: No, no. I'm fine.
Halina: No, no, no, no. Come on. You have nothing to drink.
Lindsay: These are all your children?
Halina: Yes. This is the one from New York. My daughter from New York, this one here. She met a guy eight years younger.
Interviewer 1: Oh, good for her.
Halina: Second [unintelligible 01:22:24] Great guy, absolutely. Nice guy.
Lindsay: Cool. This is wonderful. Who are all these? Are they your grandchildren?
Halina: Where honey, where?
Lindsay: Grandchildren all along here?
Halina: Yes. This is my daughter. Has two boys. They live in New York. She lives in New York, and these are also my grandchildren. My oldest son. I got three sons and a daughter. I got nine grandchildren. Thank God. I love them all. I really do. I try to get along with them, call them all the time.
Lindsay: That's really nice.
Halina: Now I just want to show you this, look. This is also me here. That's a good picture.
Lindsay: That's beautiful.
Halina: And let me show you my father.
Lindsay: Is that at your wedding?
Halina: Yes. What I want to show you is actually-- see all the pictures that I have at the holocaust Museum of my grandparents. See, look. This is my father. This is my dad. He was a military man. You can tell how strict he is.
Lindsay: Look at his glasses.
Halina: I know [laughs]
Lindsay: Wow. Who are the other ones?
Halina: This, you will have in [unintelligible 01:24:03] museum, I guess. Oh, this you know here with this guy.
Lindsay: Is that you the young girl in the back?
Halina: Yes. This is the same picture, but this is-- Look.
Lindsay: This is really neat that you are able to preserve some of these.
Halina: My aunt gave it to me. The one living in Canada.
Lindsay: Oh, she had--
Halina: Yes.
Lindsay: Oh, fantastic.
Halina: The back of here sits-- Look. It sits here. Paulina and-- I think it's a [unintelligible 01:24:45] I can't see it. Look how old it is. Look.
Lindsay: I see.
Halina: Look at the poor little girl. Look. Like somebody from-- what do you call-- the orphanage. Look [laughs] Look, I good eyes here. My eye looking like [unintelligible 01:25:10] Look. Look at the eyes, the lips. Look. Big lips. Now my lips are skinny.
Lindsay: You have aged very gracefully.
